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JDO is dead (was: Re: *URGENT* -- Call for support)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Samson" <eric@libelis.com>

Hi Eric,

I would like to comment on some of your statements.
Maybe my opinion could also be interesting for others in this group.

A comment to *URGENT*:
Although I am a competitor, Falko and I are mailing on a regular basis.
I habe been visiting Falko in Leipzig and he really is a very nice guy.
He deserves all the support you can give.
I sent him a private sympathy mail an hour ago.

There is no other open source Java OODB of importance besides ozone.
XML support is of great importance today.
Please help to continue the ozone project.


To your mail:

> * but real database kernel skills is not something so common

I don't think so.
Domain knowledge is the main problem in programming.
Working on databases is fun, smooth and easy because the functionality can
be very well defined.


> * suppose that Open Source intiatives can take 10 % of a market
> * and today ODBMS is <2% of the whole DBMS market
> * => so the target for an Open Source ODBMS is no more than <0,2 % which
is
> not huge

Mixed calculations like this never make sense.
An excellent product defines it's own market.

A VC did a similar calculation for my project:
1% mobile devices run Java
50% have an application that need a database
10% would use an OODB
Market: 115.750 EUR

What a joke!
I have a request for 2 million licences at 1$ and that's only 1 request
among 30.

Marketing is what ozone needs.
Specifically the XML area can be pushed.
This is the trouble with Open Source:
You typically don't have marketing experts that try to get hype going.


> * analysts says that some technos are ready for Open Source, while others
> are not

The question is not "Open Source or Closed Source", the question is one of
the quality of a product.
Quality can only be reached with work, work and work again.
Open Source and Closed Source only define, who works on a project and who
receives the rewards.

I see a problem for Open Source since programmers can get so much money for
their work that it seems stupid to work for free.
Could it be an option to *pay* Falko for his work from the ozone community?
It would be very cheap, looking at the work he does.
I think there are 200 people on the mailing-list, is that right?
I suggest to invest 1000$ each for Falko to keep the work going.


> * I'm quite convinced that ODBMS market is having a new birthday owing to
> Java and J2EE

I believe that all technologies too specific to Java might get a problem.
C# is coming strong and MS VS .NET will be a beautiful development
environment.
Normal Java code can easily be ported to C#.
The more complex specific APIs are, the more proprietary to the Java
platform they will remain.

Smalltalk clearly is the superiour language to Java and to C#.


> * EJB market is a huge potential for ODBMS

EJB are junk.
A proxy mess like that has no right for a future.
Even some Sun- and Java-fans have a similar opinion.


> * there is NO "xml storage market" (see Excelon troubles these days) !!!!

Excelon got famous by becoming the market leader with their terrible object
database ObjectStore.
They ruined the market for everyone.

I would not expect their XML product to be that good.


> * xml is definitely not a storage format, it's only an exchange format

I fully agree here.
It's only an exchange format for small documents.


> * ODMG is dead ... (yes it is)

Yes.

> * ... long live to JDO !

JDO is dead.
http://access1.sun.com/jdo/
Even Versant now degrades it's "Judo" interface to a research project.


Sorry for my harsh words, but I can't help my opinion.


Kind regards,
Carl
---
Carl Rosenberger
db4o - database for objects - http://www.db4o.com