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RE: *URGENT* -- Call for support

Thanks Eric for sharing your views on Ozone. I am fairly new to the world of 
Java and XML and don't feel qualified to offer much guidance on the future 
path for Ozone but would like to share my thoughts.

The work that Falko and others on the Ozone team have done is very 
impressive and the core Ozone engine appears to be quite solid. Yet there 
does not seem to be a great deal of interest in Ozone and I was thinking 
about what might help broaden the appeal of Ozone.

Related to this I found your comments on JDO quite interesting. JDO 
compliance looks like a necessary capability to be a serious entry in the 
Java dbms market. (for an intro to JDO see 
http://www.javareport.com/html/from_pages/view_recent_articles_jr.cfm?ArticleID=688 
)

Falko, do you have a sense of how much work it would take to make Ozone JDO 
compliant?

It seems alignment with JDO might help broaden Ozone's appeal. For a 
prospective user having minimum dependence on a single product can be a real 
plus.

The need for a query capability comes up periodicaly on this list. Although 
it pretty sketchy at this point, the JDO spec attempts to address the query 
issue in a way that is query language neutral. I think that having even a 
minimal query capability would be a real plus for Ozone. Given clear goals, 
specifications and constraints this is an area where I could contribute.

On the surface it isn't obvious how the proposed JDO query approach would be 
useful if Ozone were being used as an XML repository. I agree with Eric's 
statement that 'xml is definitely not a storage format, it's only an 
exchange format'. To me it seems some of the issues raised here concerning 
XML and Ozone may be due to an inappropriate use of the technology.

Falko, as I mentioned at the end of last year over the next couple of weeks 
I'll be putting together a writeup of our experiences to date with Ozone. 
(They've been very positive!). Last week I gave the first demo at our core 
distributers conference of our new product which will use Ozone. A few weeks 
before the conference I was given a requirement for some major new 
capabilities that required significant structural changes to the database. 
The changes were made and worked. I wouldn't even want to try that with a 
RDBMS under the app.

cheers,

don

>From: "Eric Samson" <eric@libelis.com>
>Reply-To: ozone-users@ozone-db.org
>To: <ozone-users@ozone-db.org>
>Subject: RE: *URGENT* -- Call for support
>Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:57:47 +0100
>
>Hi all
>
>Please let me add few things on that thread, as a former technical Director
>for a well known commercial ODBMS in Southern Europe, and now as the
>president of a brand new company that tries to push Open Source initiatives
>whenever possible.
>
>* it's quite easy to find people that can contribute to an XML thing, or to
>an IDE tool, or an JSP something
>* but real database kernel skills is not something so common
>
>* suppose that Open Source intiatives can take 10 % of a market
>* and today ODBMS is <2% of the whole DBMS market
>* => so the target for an Open Source ODBMS is no more than <0,2 % which is
>not huge
>
>* analysts says that some technos are ready for Open Source, while others
>are not
>* in the first category they put : Operating Systems, middlewares, ...
>* in the second they put : Databases in general
>* please cf. the latest Forrester study on Open Source technologies
>
>* I'm quite convinced that ODBMS market is having a new birthday owing to
>Java and J2EE
>* EJB market is a huge potential for ODBMS
>* there is NO "xml storage market" (see Excelon troubles these days) !!!!
>* xml is definitely not a storage format, it's only an exchange format
>
>* ODMG is dead ... (yes it is)
>* ... long live to JDO !
>
>How many downloads do you have per month (and total) ?
>What was your original idea/target when you started Ozone ?
>Is there an updated requirement/specification document ?
>Do you have somewhere a kind of to-do list with needed enhancements,
>priorities, assigned resources, ...
>How many people are regularly contributing to Ozone ?
>How many contributors would be necessary to complete your product, in how
>much time ?
>What are your relationships with Apache, ObjectWeb and jBoss ?
>Are you working with universities ?
>
>Falko, I'm quite sure that JDO is the best chance for your product.
>In the next months a huge interest will raise for JDO drivers, and ODBMS 
>are
>obviously "pure" JDO sources.
>
>
>Best Regards,
>Eric Samson
>LIBeLIS, Liberty for Large IS
>President
>+33 6 0302 5341
>Eric@libelis.com <mailto:Eric@libelis.com>
>
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : ozone-users-owner@ozone-db.org
>[mailto:ozone-users-owner@ozone-db.org]De la part de Falko Braeutigam
>Envoyé : jeudi 18 janvier 2001 21:40
>À : Sean Allen; ozone-users@ozone-db.org
>Objet : Re: *URGENT* -- Call for support
>
>
>Sean and all,
>
>it's late here and I have to go home now. I'll answer tomorrow in more
>detail. Thanks for your support so far.
>
>Falko
>
>
>On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Sean Allen wrote:
> > I concur whole-heartedly,
> >
> > I think Ozone is a great project, and has much potential for the future,
> > It's a great Idea, implemented well, and I think it has a definite place
> > amoungst all the various Java technology's that have exploded onto the
> > scene (EJB, JDO etc)
> > it offers, in my opinion a much purer solution than anything Sun have
> > come up with for a persistant Java-Store as it does not waste it's time
> > trying to map Object's to anything "Flat" (except serialized objects of
> > course).
> > I have just got back from a well needed break and I have some free time
> > this year, before moving to Palo Alto, CA (My wife is from there) later
> > this Year.
> > I will gladly donate some time to Ozone this Year, and sincerely hope
> > that the project (and your Interest in it,  Falko!!!) continues.
> > Someone point me at something to do and I will gladly help out as time
> > and ability (just being realistic) allow
> > Ozone is by far and away one of the better OSS Java projects I've seen.
> > and like I said, I would gladly contribute some time to it this year.
> > is there a list of TO-DO's somewhere?
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sean Allen
> > -------------------------------------------
> > Consultant: Linux Java Software Databases
> >
> > TJM Computing  16 Marchmont Crecent
> >                Pine Town
> >                KZN
> >                South Africa
> >                3600
> >
> > e-mail: zeroone@worldonline.co.za
> >
> > "Use Linux: More Power"
> >
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>--
>______________________________________________________________________
>Falko Braeutigam                              mailto:falko@smb-tec.com
>SMB GmbH                                        http://www.smb-tec.com
>
>

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