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Re: The good/bad things (Was Re: Ozone)

On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Kees Jongenburger wrote:
> I am currently graduating from school om a content management systeem
> based on Java and XML . for one month i have been searching for a product
> that lets me store and retrive XML documents in a "File like" hirachy.
> the document that best describes my needs is
> http://www.sun.com/980908/xml/. I have considered stepping of the open
> source and tryed different things like the 
> Orcale , but there  IFS (Internet File Systeem) witch  seams the great
> solution is not available yet. i have considerd writing it database
> my selve but then i found Ozone. 

I'm wondering how much developers (list members and those how will subscribe in
the future:) are interested in the XML efforts of the Ozone Database Project.
The XML stuff is an application of ozone and its development is independent
from the core development. However, is made to handle complex Java object
structures and so its per se well suited for storing DOM/XML data. Of course
this does not mean that it can handle real-world XML applications. The only way
to find out is to make some.

>  
> so why ozone is good:
> - it's the best i have found so far.
:)
> - the repository (only in the dev ) has lots of potential
> - the system is build like "i whould have" so the need for writing it is
> less urgent but i whould like to contribute.
> 
> 
> why it's bad:
> - it is not realy fast.
> - it is still in early development.
> - you can't use it for serious stuff right now because it is in early
> development (you can not "export/import" anything).
> 
> 
> Al those bad things are realy not a big deal for the moment but
> i am still worying about performance . how can that be solved?
Indeed, ozone is not that fast. But so far I did not find any *Java* database
solution that provide the same functionality and runs substantial faster than
ozone (ObjectStore PSE, Objectivity, mapping on top of PostgreSQL). There are
dedicated XML products that run faster but ozone is a general object database
solution and we do not plan to change this.

On a 400MHz linux box ozone needs around 18s to store a fairly complex XML
file with nearly 8300 nodes and 77000 methods invokes. Accessing all nodes of
the document of a 'cold' server takes 3.6s. Warm: 0.5s.
Maybe we can optimize things but so far I don't see a way to make this
substantial faster with the current ozone architecture and the current JVMs.
(and the current architecture is the best that I'm able to make ;)
Of course, scalability is another story.

> 
> what i whould like:
> - a web java interface that shows you the database as a file system and
> enables you to store XML and Images
We are currently working on an XML repository with much more functionality
than the current one. So far we call it Prowler. Unfortunately the spec is
written in German but I can send it, if someone is interested. Core
functionality includes: versioning, user roles, permissions, mapping to file
system, pluggable adapters for several data sources. It is intended to be a
toolkit to build XML based web apps that need to integrate structured
documents and several other, maybe transactional, data sources. We plan
to use Cocoon and maybe Enhydra as publishing front-ends.

> 
> what i am wondering:
> - once the resopitory i there how easy whould it be to add versioning on
> top the repository
see above.

> 
> what i am currently havig questions about is:
> - how should we build interactive sites using xml (query's and sush)
For the current XML repository we have developed an Cocoon processor that
generates pages or part thereof out of documents in the database. Currently we
are making a TagLib to support XSP. In the future it will be possible to
intergrate every data source that is integrated in Prowler via the mentioned
adapter. This is the interactivity that I have in mind. What do you think?

> - i have build a generic HTML based XML editor. if I want customers
> to use it i should be able to enhance the generic XML editor so that
> things like
> <bookmark>
> 	<url>www.ozone-db.org</url>
> 	<desc>The Ozone project</desc>
> </bookmark>
> gets reconized as a bookmark and can be edited as sush.
> 
> those are my "flames" for today.

Thank for this kind of flames ;)


Falko
-- 
______________________________________________________________________
Falko Braeutigam                         mailto:falko@softwarebuero.de
softwarebuero m&b (SMB)                    http://www.softwarebuero.de